Does AI Need Regulation in Podcasting?

Danny: 00:00:00

Hello and welcome to In and Around Podcasting, the inclusive podcast

Danny: 00:00:03

industry podcast where we highlight powerful podcasting perspectives.

Danny: 00:00:08

I'm Danny Brown, Head of Podcaster Support on Captivate.

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And today I'm running solo while my erstwhile co host Mark is off gallivanting

Danny: 00:00:15

at Podcast Movement Evolutions in LA.

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Not to worry though, we've got two awesome guest co hosts today.

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And today we'll be talking about AI in podcasting.

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The pros, cons, future, etc.

Danny: 00:00:26

And as mentioned, I'm joined by two amazing guest co hosts, First is Deidre

Danny: 00:00:30

Tshien, CEO and co founder of Capsho.

Danny: 00:00:32

Welcome Deidre.

Deirdre: 00:00:33

Thanks for having me, Danny.

Deirdre: 00:00:35

I'm so excited for this chat.

Danny: 00:00:37

I'm looking forward to it.

Danny: 00:00:38

It's going to be awesome.

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And we're also joined by Canadian podcaster and producer

Danny: 00:00:42

extraordinaire, Kattie Laur.

Danny: 00:00:44

Kattie, welcome.

Kattie: 00:00:45

Thank you, Danny.

Kattie: 00:00:46

I'm excited to be here.

Danny: 00:00:47

So I'm really looking forward to this because I know we've got some really

Danny: 00:00:51

good topics to talk about, and we'll get into that shortly, obviously, with an

Danny: 00:00:54

announcement that both Apple and YouTube made, and we'll cover that very soon.

Danny: 00:00:59

But because no one listens to the end of podcast and the skip and the jump

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off and somebody stopped talking.

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I want you guys to introduce yourself and tell.

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Our listeners and viewers who you are and what you do.

Danny: 00:01:08

So let's start with you.

Danny: 00:01:10

Deirdre, I mentioned you're at Capsho, who are you and what is Capsho?

Deirdre: 00:01:12

Yes.

Deirdre: 00:01:13

So Capsho is AI powered software that helps entrepreneurs.

Deirdre: 00:01:16

So coaches, consultants, and service providers get clients on their content.

Deirdre: 00:01:20

So we can go into a little bit more about what that means later on, but I

Deirdre: 00:01:24

just want to debunk the myth of like repurposing your podcast is the way to go.

Deirdre: 00:01:29

It's not to say that repurposing isn't good.

Deirdre: 00:01:32

It's more like what outcome are you looking for?

Deirdre: 00:01:35

And that's what we are so passionate about is how do we actually help

Deirdre: 00:01:39

people get an outcome from the content that they're creating.

Danny: 00:01:42

And I think that's important to, as you say, important to, to differentiate

Danny: 00:01:47

because a lot of times it's all about how can I repurpose and get stuff out

Danny: 00:01:50

the door so I'm still shipping while I'm recording and doing all that stuff.

Danny: 00:01:53

And it's so important to get that differentiation.

Danny: 00:01:55

So I'm glad you mentioned that for sure Deirdre.

Danny: 00:02:00

As I mentioned, Canadian, if anybody in the Canadian podcast scene will

Danny: 00:02:03

know Kattie, but for anybody that is not in the Canadian podcast scene,

Danny: 00:02:06

who are you and what do you do?

Kattie: 00:02:08

Yeah, so I'm Kattie Laur.

Kattie: 00:02:09

I'm a freelance podcast producer, and I also write a newsletter called Pod

Kattie: 00:02:13

the North, which is a newsletter on Substack for the Canadian podcasting

Kattie: 00:02:17

ecosystem, everyone from indie podcasters to network producers and studios.

Kattie: 00:02:22

So yeah, I release a bi weekly issue.

Kattie: 00:02:25

Talking about things that are happening here and, and spotlighting different

Kattie: 00:02:28

people that are within the space.

Kattie: 00:02:30

So that's what I do.

Kattie: 00:02:31

And now it's kind of led me on this really fun journey of talking about

Kattie: 00:02:35

Canadian podcasting and being a Canadian podcast representative, I guess.

Kattie: 00:02:39

I don't know.

Danny: 00:02:40

Yeah.

Danny: 00:02:40

I feel you should have like a Canadian flag behind you and

Danny: 00:02:43

some music on your intro, etc.

Danny: 00:02:44

when you're, when we have you on.

Danny: 00:02:47

I know we spoke last week or the week before for one of your newsletters,

Danny: 00:02:51

so I'm looking forward to that.

Danny: 00:02:52

So yeah.

Danny: 00:02:52

so much.

Danny: 00:02:52

If you don't know Kattie, she's very much involved in the Canadian

Danny: 00:02:55

podcasting scene for sure.

Danny: 00:02:57

So as I mentioned, we are going to be talking about AI in podcasting.

Danny: 00:03:01

It's still a fairly new concept.

Danny: 00:03:03

I know Deidre Capsho has been around for a little bit.

Danny: 00:03:06

But it's still fairly new for a lot of people.

Danny: 00:03:08

And what brought this episode up was both Apple and YouTube.

Danny: 00:03:12

So no small, you know, no small deal there.

Danny: 00:03:15

Have updated their content guidelines to include specific requirements around AI.

Danny: 00:03:20

Now they're both taking it a little bit of a different approach.

Danny: 00:03:23

Apple is mentioning that you need any creators using AI to generate a

Danny: 00:03:27

material portion of the audio must disclose this in the audio metadata.

Danny: 00:03:31

And there's also misleading use of AI.

Danny: 00:03:33

For YouTube, it's more about using the likeness of a realistic person

Danny: 00:03:38

as well as altering footage and news and, you know, create an

Danny: 00:03:42

alternative versions, I guess, solve.

Danny: 00:03:45

Real life incidents like a fire or new stories, etc.

Danny: 00:03:48

So this is quite a big announcement because obviously apple is Arguably

Danny: 00:03:52

the biggest name in podcasting.

Danny: 00:03:54

I'm sure Spotify would disagree and YouTube is definitely the biggest name

Danny: 00:03:57

when it comes to video creation and content so i'm curious from Deidre,

Danny: 00:04:02

I'd like to start with you, actually, because you're in the, you're the

Danny: 00:04:05

CEO of an AI, AI Platform, obviously.

Danny: 00:04:08

What did you make of the Apple and YouTube announcements when they were made?

Deirdre: 00:04:12

I was actually not surprised, to be honest.

Deirdre: 00:04:15

I, you know, I think we could all see this, you know, happening at some stage.

Deirdre: 00:04:19

I think Google actually announced it from a text based perspective, you know, to

Deirdre: 00:04:23

that they're going to really penalize.

Deirdre: 00:04:25

They didn't really say AI but, you know, they were, it was very

Deirdre: 00:04:29

much targeting AI created content.

Deirdre: 00:04:32

And, you know, from the very beginning when we launched,

Deirdre: 00:04:34

which was in July of 2022, we.

Deirdre: 00:04:38

And especially when ChatGPT particularly, you know, it really became this like AI

Deirdre: 00:04:42

hype that AI hype cycle really took off.

Deirdre: 00:04:45

We knew that all of this was going to come down the pipe.

Deirdre: 00:04:47

And so we have always the way that we build and talk about Capsho and talk

Deirdre: 00:04:54

about what it is, how it is that we help.

Deirdre: 00:04:56

Entrepreneurs, especially those podcasts is all about leaning into the humanness.

Deirdre: 00:05:01

And so again, we can go into what that means and looks like, but I am

Deirdre: 00:05:05

so, so passionate about the fact that AI cannot and should not, and will

Deirdre: 00:05:11

not take away what actually matters to us as humans, which is creating

Deirdre: 00:05:16

a connection with other humans.

Deirdre: 00:05:18

And so I think if we kind of just.

Deirdre: 00:05:21

really lean into the moral ness of what it means to create content,

Deirdre: 00:05:27

then we kind of can't go wrong with all of these guidelines and, and

Deirdre: 00:05:31

penalty, potential penalties that might come up in content creation.

Danny: 00:05:36

And I really like the, the moralness wording or phrasing that you

Danny: 00:05:40

used there, because I feel maybe that's a, an area that is up for discussion a

Danny: 00:05:43

lot, whether that's from a creator side or professionals in the space and, and

Danny: 00:05:47

makers of AI tools and platforms is the moral side of, does it replace human?

Danny: 00:05:52

Does it replace creativity?

Danny: 00:05:53

Does it X, Y, Z?

Danny: 00:05:55

Yeah.

Danny: 00:05:55

And, and often, as you mentioned, that's not the case.

Danny: 00:05:57

It may be misunderstanding.

Danny: 00:05:59

Kattie, from a creator point of view and also a producer point of view as well,

Danny: 00:06:02

to what Deirdre was mentioning, are you finding these kinds of conversations?

Danny: 00:06:06

come up from the creators you work with and what did you or anybody

Danny: 00:06:11

you've worked with or what you see on the line, what have they made about

Danny: 00:06:14

the announcements from Apple and YouTube, anything from their side?

Kattie: 00:06:17

I honestly haven't had this conversation about the announcements much

Kattie: 00:06:21

recently, but the announcements like, like Deirdre, it didn't surprise me at all.

Kattie: 00:06:26

And I think they're, they were inevitable and a good thing to happen.

Kattie: 00:06:28

I think it hopefully keeps the podcasting space.

Kattie: 00:06:32

credible in some way.

Kattie: 00:06:33

I mean, that's a lot to say about podcasting since there

Kattie: 00:06:36

are a lot of different types of podcasters within this industry.

Kattie: 00:06:39

But like Deirdre was saying, like, we know podcasts to be human in nature and

Kattie: 00:06:45

we know them to be authentic in nature.

Kattie: 00:06:47

And once you start to introduce AI in whatever way that might be, then I think

Kattie: 00:06:51

people start to question how authentic a podcast might be at the end of the day.

Kattie: 00:06:55

So having those notifications that there's AI involved in the audio, I think is

Kattie: 00:07:00

going to be really helpful for people to know what exactly they're listening to.

Kattie: 00:07:03

I think transparency is definitely key, but when I'm talking to other podcasters

Kattie: 00:07:08

and podcast producers, the most of the time they're talking about AI, when it

Kattie: 00:07:12

comes to using it in, in the form of like tools that will help them publish

Kattie: 00:07:17

their podcast and creating show notes and things like that, that are the little,

Kattie: 00:07:21

like, Dinky little things that you don't really want to do and I get how that can

Kattie: 00:07:25

be super helpful and it really helps a lot of people make show notes and pages

Kattie: 00:07:30

for their websites and that kind of thing.

Kattie: 00:07:31

That's usually where I hear a lot of people talking about AI and podcasting.

Danny: 00:07:36

And one of the things that interested me about the, the Apple

Danny: 00:07:39

and the YouTube announcements is an article you published, I think it was

Danny: 00:07:43

last year, maybe late last year, Kattie where there was a bit of concern about

Danny: 00:07:47

potentially AI or sorry, about hackers.

Danny: 00:07:50

impersonating our voices and content, et cetera using tools like maybe Overdub

Danny: 00:07:55

that Descript has or similar tools.

Danny: 00:07:56

I know I watch a YouTube channel called Presidents Play and it's basically AI

Danny: 00:08:01

representations of Trump, Obama one of the W, one of the Bushes and Clinton,

Danny: 00:08:06

and they're playing Wii games, Nintendo Wii, and they're all, you know, got

Danny: 00:08:09

the characters and that, and it's fun.

Danny: 00:08:11

But they sound exactly like them.

Danny: 00:08:13

And I'm curious, I mean, obviously Deirdre, you mentioned the moral part.

Danny: 00:08:16

You know, where does that take shape when it comes to AI and replication

Danny: 00:08:20

and, and making stuff easier?

Danny: 00:08:22

And obviously there's a lot of voice actors sharing concerns

Danny: 00:08:25

about this kind of thing.

Danny: 00:08:26

Deirdre, I know obviously Capsho is a bit different because you're not into the

Danny: 00:08:31

The voice replacement and maybe something you're doing down the line, who knows?

Danny: 00:08:34

But at the moment it's more about the marketing and the content marketing and

Danny: 00:08:37

helping entrepreneurs and podcasters creators on that side so i'm curious.

Danny: 00:08:41

Is that a valid concern?

Danny: 00:08:42

Is that a danger that we could see, you know creativity not stifled but

Danny: 00:08:47

replaced because we've got so much likeness that you can get to the point

Danny: 00:08:51

where show notes are replaced you know, blog posts are replaced and you don't

Danny: 00:08:56

need the human side of it to create.

Deirdre: 00:08:58

I okay.

Deirdre: 00:08:59

So if, again, if we go back to the bonus and why we're creating content,

Deirdre: 00:09:02

like I, you know, I keep saying like, we, we cannot be creating

Deirdre: 00:09:06

content just for content sake.

Deirdre: 00:09:08

I think that's the thing.

Deirdre: 00:09:08

It's like, I call it the content vomit where this is what I saw with, you

Deirdre: 00:09:11

know, the AI, it's like, now we can all create content and so much of it.

Deirdre: 00:09:15

And why, like, why, why, why do we want to be creating this

Deirdre: 00:09:20

much content just for the.

Deirdre: 00:09:22

For the sake of it, you know, like, and that's why I always

Deirdre: 00:09:25

go back to intentionality.

Deirdre: 00:09:26

So if we are really intentional about, okay, I want to create content because

Deirdre: 00:09:30

I have a message, a story, I have experiences that I want to share.

Deirdre: 00:09:35

I have expertise that I want to share.

Deirdre: 00:09:37

That's the human part.

Deirdre: 00:09:38

Like that can never be, replaced by AI, because AI, yes, can make up stories,

Deirdre: 00:09:43

but they're not your, your story.

Deirdre: 00:09:45

Like, and this comes back, you know, there's going to be bad actors,

Deirdre: 00:09:49

any, like any kind of new technology that comes about, there's always

Deirdre: 00:09:51

gonna be people who will take advantage of it in a negative way.

Deirdre: 00:09:54

But there's, I think a lot of people who will look at and be like, no, I

Deirdre: 00:09:58

still You know, I'm a really, really cool part of this, and I'm just

Deirdre: 00:10:03

going to use technology to, you know, enhance or make myself more efficient.

Deirdre: 00:10:07

So what that looks like for me is if we stay true to.

Deirdre: 00:10:12

What makes us human, which is our stories and our experience, et cetera.

Deirdre: 00:10:15

Like that is what creates our anchor content.

Deirdre: 00:10:17

So that's why a lot of us podcasts, right?

Deirdre: 00:10:19

We have something that we want to share and the things, you know, definitely

Deirdre: 00:10:22

where Capsho plays a part around, you know, amplifying that through

Deirdre: 00:10:25

content marketing is it's anchored in that content that came from a human.

Deirdre: 00:10:31

You know, you, so if you can start it from.

Deirdre: 00:10:34

Your humanness.

Deirdre: 00:10:35

And then, by the way, we still say AI is always not, is not going to be perfect.

Deirdre: 00:10:40

So you also need to be part of that editing process to make sure that

Deirdre: 00:10:44

it is accurately trans, you know translating what it is that you want

Deirdre: 00:10:48

to have out there, then the human is involved through the whole process.

Deirdre: 00:10:53

When we talk about video, you know, overdubbing and voice, et cetera, like

Deirdre: 00:10:58

again, I, when I look at, I, I don't.

Deirdre: 00:11:01

Personally see a need for that, unless it's like for really, and I think the

Deirdre: 00:11:06

reason why Overdub, like why Descript created something like Overdub to begin

Deirdre: 00:11:10

with was really because it's like, Hey, there might be some things that maybe

Deirdre: 00:11:14

the, the audio cut off a little bit, or, you know, it's just like small tweaks

Deirdre: 00:11:19

that you can then use, you know, your recorded voice to just like smooth over.

Deirdre: 00:11:23

That I think is a great use of voice.

Deirdre: 00:11:26

AI, but if we're going to do it to like, try to impersonate someone else, or if

Deirdre: 00:11:32

we're trying to lean into it because we're afraid that we can't listen to

Deirdre: 00:11:36

our voices and our voices sound weird.

Deirdre: 00:11:37

So we're just going to like, I don't know, make up another voice or another

Deirdre: 00:11:40

video or create, you know, an AI actor.

Deirdre: 00:11:42

Like these are things that I'm like.

Deirdre: 00:11:46

Again, you go back to what it means to be human and what it means

Deirdre: 00:11:49

to be human is being courageous and conquering these fears.

Deirdre: 00:11:54

Like that's just a part of any journey that we have.

Deirdre: 00:11:57

And so it would be a shame if people look at AI as a way to kind of like

Deirdre: 00:12:04

not have to front up to some of their fears and just hit record, you know,

Deirdre: 00:12:10

whether it's camera or microphone and just talk about You know, what it is

Deirdre: 00:12:16

that they know and, and like, and the message that they want to get out there.

Deirdre: 00:12:19

And so I think that's what it, you know, if we just take it back to like,

Deirdre: 00:12:23

why is it that we're creating content?

Deirdre: 00:12:24

It's all of that stuff, right?

Deirdre: 00:12:26

Like we're creating content because we have something that we want to share.

Deirdre: 00:12:30

We have an audience that wants to hear that and we want to connect with them.

Deirdre: 00:12:34

Why would we use AI to actually try to put those barriers in place to.

Deirdre: 00:12:39

Not achieve that outcome.

Deirdre: 00:12:42

Yeah, that's that's how I think about it.

Danny: 00:12:45

Well, it's interesting.

Danny: 00:12:45

You mentioned the the voice changing.

Danny: 00:12:47

I know it's weird.

Danny: 00:12:48

I see some posts on Reddit now and again where it's not weird.

Danny: 00:12:52

I understand why they're doing it.

Danny: 00:12:53

Where people want to disguise voice because they want to

Danny: 00:12:55

be anonymous with a podcast.

Danny: 00:12:57

They don't want employers to know.

Danny: 00:12:59

That they're making this podcast or they don't want family members.

Danny: 00:13:02

It might be an erotic podcast and they don't want family

Danny: 00:13:05

members to know about, et cetera.

Danny: 00:13:06

But the part about wanting to change your voice most podcasters don't

Danny: 00:13:10

like the sound of their own voice.

Danny: 00:13:11

The first thing you put on a pair of headphones, you think,

Danny: 00:13:13

do I really sound like that?

Danny: 00:13:14

Or are you listening back?

Danny: 00:13:15

So I think there's an opportunity there for fun stuff as well.

Danny: 00:13:19

You know, where you can really have fun.

Danny: 00:13:21

I use a road caster pro too.

Danny: 00:13:22

There's a little toys on their little pads in there.

Danny: 00:13:24

I can make myself sound like a chipmunk.

Danny: 00:13:26

So it's, it's, it's fun.

Danny: 00:13:27

It's it'd be cool stuff to hear someone like that.

Danny: 00:13:30

Yes.

Danny: 00:13:30

And then I'll create Kattie, you mentioned something interesting where obviously

Danny: 00:13:33

you mentioned that a lot of podcast AI at the moment is for the kind of

Danny: 00:13:38

features that Capsho offers, where it's helping create the kind of marketing,

Danny: 00:13:42

the content marketing tools and, and.

Danny: 00:13:44

Stuff that you need.

Danny: 00:13:46

And I'm wondering, do podcasters almost want a lazy way out?

Danny: 00:13:52

And that's why sometimes obviously AI is used to help create the content,

Danny: 00:13:56

but then if a podcaster blames the content because of their So need to push

Danny: 00:14:01

more content out in the first place.

Danny: 00:14:02

So then that's a weird catch 22 situation where they're trying

Danny: 00:14:06

to keep up with other podcasters.

Danny: 00:14:07

So they need to push out more and more is what are you finding as a, an

Danny: 00:14:10

indie creator yourself and a producer?

Kattie: 00:14:12

Yeah, I mean, I definitely wouldn't use the

Kattie: 00:14:14

word lazy, that's for sure.

Kattie: 00:14:15

But I would say a lot of indie podcasters have full time jobs, like they are

Kattie: 00:14:20

making podcasts on the side when they also maybe have kids to raise, kids

Kattie: 00:14:24

to bring to soccer practice, dinner to be made, households to maintain.

Kattie: 00:14:29

So I think of AI in the podcasting space as a tool and exactly just that.

Kattie: 00:14:34

And I do think that sometimes there is a need to make content

Kattie: 00:14:37

just for content's sake.

Kattie: 00:14:39

Where specifically if you're thinking around SEO and making sure that your

Kattie: 00:14:43

website is like search engine optimized.

Kattie: 00:14:45

if you've created one for your podcast, which is often said

Kattie: 00:14:49

is a best practice nowadays.

Kattie: 00:14:50

If you've created that and you wanted to make like a blog post that was

Kattie: 00:14:54

in partnership with an episode that you've released, maybe you'd use AI to

Kattie: 00:14:58

be like, okay, ChatGPT, like create a summary of this podcast episode for me.

Kattie: 00:15:04

And then they could sit down and read through it all and maybe

Kattie: 00:15:07

use it as sort of a foundation to build something more off of.

Kattie: 00:15:11

That's something that I would think about doing and using AI for.

Kattie: 00:15:14

So I wouldn't release what AI generates as is.

Kattie: 00:15:18

I would definitely like read through it and add my own like pizzazz

Kattie: 00:15:21

to it and whatever that might be.

Kattie: 00:15:23

But at least it gives you sort of a foundation and makes things

Kattie: 00:15:26

just that much quicker to get to.

Kattie: 00:15:28

And I think eventually.

Kattie: 00:15:29

If people are releasing the AI just as is, like, it'll be obvious it'll

Kattie: 00:15:33

fail, but it might still give you SEO purposes and hit those keywords,

Kattie: 00:15:38

like bring people to your website.

Kattie: 00:15:40

So I think like there is still a need to create content for content

Kattie: 00:15:44

purposes, like content sake.

Kattie: 00:15:46

Sadly.

Kattie: 00:15:47

I don't love that idea, but it's just sort of the nature of the game at this point

Kattie: 00:15:51

where you're thinking about websites.

Kattie: 00:15:53

And that's mainly the tool that I see it used for.

Kattie: 00:15:56

Okay.

Kattie: 00:15:56

Yeah, I think that answers your question.

Danny: 00:15:59

Well, and I think that ties back to what you were mentioning

Danny: 00:16:01

yourself, Deidre, where obviously the human aspect still needs to be there.

Danny: 00:16:06

So whether that's from the, the original input or the ideation and then the

Danny: 00:16:10

tidy up and the, the, The making it back to your voice afterwards, and

Danny: 00:16:15

I know Capsho does that really well.

Danny: 00:16:17

And we'll talk about that very soon for sure one thing i'm real interested in is

Danny: 00:16:21

because you mentioned it yourself, the moral factor and the responsibilities

Danny: 00:16:25

With the announcement that obviously Apple and YouTube made and you'd mentioned

Danny: 00:16:28

yourself that from day one with Capsho You've been very keen on making sure

Danny: 00:16:33

things are done properly and responsibly, etc So, What responsibilities, if

Danny: 00:16:37

you like do platforms like Capsho and Descript and other AI tools that

Danny: 00:16:41

offer different features for users?

Danny: 00:16:43

What responsibilities do you feel that, that A, based on the announcements

Danny: 00:16:47

from Apple and YouTube, that Capsho and more has to ensure these are met?

Danny: 00:16:52

And how do you get that across?

Danny: 00:16:54

To your, your, your users.

Deirdre: 00:16:56

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:16:57

So we I can only talk about Capsho.

Deirdre: 00:16:59

I don't know about how I, you know, other, I, and there are some platforms

Deirdre: 00:17:02

that I don't agree with and, you know, I have friends, for example, who have

Deirdre: 00:17:06

created platforms that are in, you know, the spaces of, you know, AI actors and

Deirdre: 00:17:11

creating videos from like an AI generated script and you basically don't have to do.

Deirdre: 00:17:15

And.

Deirdre: 00:17:16

We're great friends, but I just, I don't agree with that approach.

Deirdre: 00:17:19

So unfortunately, you know, it's even things like I do a lot of collaborations

Deirdre: 00:17:22

and that's just unfortunately not someone not a product that I can collaborate

Deirdre: 00:17:27

with in good conscious because I actually don't agree with that strategy.

Deirdre: 00:17:31

So I think that a lot of it is.

Deirdre: 00:17:32

Cause we know we're, we're, we have a really great community of Capshovians

Deirdre: 00:17:36

and so a lot of it is introducing them to the strategies that we really lean

Deirdre: 00:17:42

into that actually gets them results.

Deirdre: 00:17:44

So, you know, an example is Katy Brinkley, who is a social media guru.

Deirdre: 00:17:49

She talks about her four post social media strategy and why.

Deirdre: 00:17:52

I love the four post social media strategy is because again, it's

Deirdre: 00:17:55

not content for content's sake.

Deirdre: 00:17:56

I mean, yes, you're still creating content, but you're creating content

Deirdre: 00:17:59

in order to drive a particular like action, whether that's engagement on

Deirdre: 00:18:04

social media or whether that's opt into a lead magnet or into a workshop, right?

Deirdre: 00:18:08

Cause we're talking to entrepreneurs here.

Deirdre: 00:18:10

And so like, so for me, if I could share these strategies that are very human

Deirdre: 00:18:15

led and Hey, AI can, yes, help you.

Deirdre: 00:18:19

You know, shortcut and make it way more efficient to.

Deirdre: 00:18:22

Give you the base of, for example, these four posts, but one of them, for

Deirdre: 00:18:27

example, one of the posts is actually what she calls a community post,

Deirdre: 00:18:30

which is all about your story, like, Hey, I cannot actually generate that.

Deirdre: 00:18:35

Like it just cannot because it can't, you know, until we have chips

Deirdre: 00:18:38

in our brains or whatever, like it actually doesn't know your memories.

Deirdre: 00:18:41

It doesn't know your story.

Deirdre: 00:18:42

So you actually have to be part of that process to like, Help create that post.

Deirdre: 00:18:47

I mean, yes, AI can give you inspiration, which Capsho does do, which is like, Hey,

Deirdre: 00:18:51

maybe based on the topic of your podcast, this is the story that you can bring to

Deirdre: 00:18:54

life or, you know, it'll give you some ideas, but at the end of the day, it's

Deirdre: 00:18:57

still you it still has to be you because.

Deirdre: 00:19:00

You're the only one who has that humanness.

Deirdre: 00:19:02

And so I've totally gone off topic.

Deirdre: 00:19:04

So I'm trying to remember what the original question was, but it was, was

Deirdre: 00:19:07

it really around the, the, the moral, like going back to the moralness?

Danny: 00:19:12

Yeah.

Danny: 00:19:12

It's really about, as you mentioned the, the users that you have and educating them

Danny: 00:19:15

about, you know, how to do things properly and what, what Capsho can and can't do.

Danny: 00:19:18

That's right.

Deirdre: 00:19:19

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:19:19

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:19:19

So it's all in the So for example, even the blog posts that we create

Deirdre: 00:19:22

it's it's, it's really anchored in.

Deirdre: 00:19:25

So, you know, the way that we created is like, Hey, the story that was told

Deirdre: 00:19:28

on that podcast episode, let's really bring that out, bring that to life.

Deirdre: 00:19:32

And then it goes into here, the tips based on that podcast episode, when we

Deirdre: 00:19:36

just use like a chat GPT or something to create a blog post, it's kind of going

Deirdre: 00:19:40

out to the internet to like, what are all the, what's all the other content

Deirdre: 00:19:43

that's out there on this particular topic?

Deirdre: 00:19:45

And it brings that in and it's very, It, it gets pretty obvious that it's AI.

Deirdre: 00:19:50

And that's what, you know, the likes of Google is starting to crack down on,

Deirdre: 00:19:53

which is like, if you're just going to talk about things in generalities, it's

Deirdre: 00:19:58

most likely generated by AI, but when you can anchor it in, you know, you

Deirdre: 00:20:01

create your anchor content, which is your podcast episode or your YouTube video.

Deirdre: 00:20:04

And, you know, then AI, like the way that Capsho does it is it actually

Deirdre: 00:20:08

pulls from that to actually create then the base of your blog post,

Deirdre: 00:20:13

then that's when it's like, okay.

Deirdre: 00:20:16

AI made it more efficient, but it actually still actually leans into humanness

Deirdre: 00:20:20

because again, it comes back to, it's your stories and it's your expertise and

Deirdre: 00:20:24

it's your step one, step two, step three that wasn't pulled from the internet.

Deirdre: 00:20:27

It was actually pulled from your content.

Deirdre: 00:20:29

And so for, for me, from a Capsho perspective, it's very much in the

Deirdre: 00:20:33

strategies and how we create the content.

Deirdre: 00:20:35

It's very much in how we bring the experts into help teach some of these

Deirdre: 00:20:40

strategies and help people understand why.

Deirdre: 00:20:43

This is important.

Deirdre: 00:20:43

Like you're not just creating content just to have content out there.

Deirdre: 00:20:46

It's you're creating content for an outcome and you're, and it all

Deirdre: 00:20:50

anchors in your starting content.

Deirdre: 00:20:52

And that's so important because it's kind of like the whole

Deirdre: 00:20:55

rubbish in rubbish out thing.

Deirdre: 00:20:56

Like you put actually, yeah.

Deirdre: 00:20:59

You're British.

Deirdre: 00:21:00

So rubbish is a thing I'm like, I'm just, I'm trying to think

Deirdre: 00:21:02

about the, it's like, you know, Americans love to eat like trash.

Deirdre: 00:21:05

It's

Kattie: 00:21:06

like, I've

Deirdre: 00:21:06

watched,

Kattie: 00:21:07

I've watched American or UK shows.

Kattie: 00:21:09

I've heard the word rubbish.

Deirdre: 00:21:11

I'm so used to saying rubbish in rubbish out and

Deirdre: 00:21:13

people are like, Oh, rubbish.

Deirdre: 00:21:15

You're trash in, trash out, you know?

Deirdre: 00:21:17

And so I think, you know, again, if we can really spend our time as humans on the

Deirdre: 00:21:23

The anchor content, like everything from a content marketing perspective, the content

Deirdre: 00:21:27

that we do create, like what Kattie said, you know, it's still important to do blog

Deirdre: 00:21:29

posts, you know, that is still content.

Deirdre: 00:21:31

Yes.

Deirdre: 00:21:32

But if you can anchor it in your still, you know, I just, is that making sense?

Deirdre: 00:21:36

Like the human part of what you're doing?

Deirdre: 00:21:38

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:21:38

Then that is actually, you're not just creating content for content sake.

Kattie: 00:21:43

Danny, if I can jump into, I totally forgot to even mention one,

Kattie: 00:21:47

like, massive way that I've been using AI and a ton of fellow producers are is

Kattie: 00:21:52

through creating paper edits for podcasts.

Kattie: 00:21:54

I totally blanked because I didn't even, it occurred to me that it

Kattie: 00:21:57

was AI generated, but it didn't.

Kattie: 00:21:59

Definitely, obviously is but a massive part of production and podcast production

Kattie: 00:22:03

for some of these more like narrative style podcasts that people create is

Kattie: 00:22:07

running your audio through something like Descript and getting the transcript

Kattie: 00:22:11

from that audio and then being able to work from what I call a paper edit.

Kattie: 00:22:15

So you can just work from the, you know, Script rather than from just the waveforms

Kattie: 00:22:19

and piece things together, move things around, build a narrative that way.

Kattie: 00:22:23

So that's like a massive, massive part that a lot of professional

Kattie: 00:22:26

podcast producers are doing to create stuff for their clients.

Kattie: 00:22:29

And then that, I don't know how much you want to dig into it, Danny, but

Kattie: 00:22:32

that's what then leads me to how much AI is capturing and learning our voices.

Kattie: 00:22:38

And that's the part of the AI side that really freaks me out is the security

Kattie: 00:22:43

around that, because as more and more platforms and more and more AI, like,

Kattie: 00:22:48

whatever they are, robots are learning our voices, how much, how secure is

Kattie: 00:22:53

that information, really, like, we have two factor authentication to get into

Kattie: 00:22:57

everything these days, but it really hasn't come down to using our voices

Kattie: 00:23:01

yet and protecting our voices, and as podcasters, that's something that I

Kattie: 00:23:05

worry about a lot is how much our voices are out there for people to, for robots

Kattie: 00:23:10

to learn and then, you know, call up our parents, tell them that they're

Kattie: 00:23:14

holding us ransom for 50, you know, 500, 000 and asking our parents for that.

Kattie: 00:23:19

And I don't know about you guys, but I've already talked to my parents and

Kattie: 00:23:22

established a safe word so that if they ever hear a mysterious phone call from

Kattie: 00:23:26

me, that doesn't sound quite right.

Kattie: 00:23:28

They can ask me what the safe word is.

Kattie: 00:23:30

And if I don't know it, then it's not me.

Kattie: 00:23:32

So, you know, that's it.

Kattie: 00:23:34

That's the, that's the part of the AI side that's really starting to freak

Kattie: 00:23:36

me out specifically for podcasters.

Kattie: 00:23:39

I don't know how much you want to get into that, Danny, but it just

Kattie: 00:23:42

running from the transcription side of things now into the security is

Kattie: 00:23:46

where my head is at with this stuff.

Danny: 00:23:48

Well, I think as well, it's a, it's a really good point.

Danny: 00:23:50

I'm sure if my parents got a call asking for 500, 000,

Danny: 00:23:54

they'd know, nah, you keep them.

Danny: 00:23:55

You know, maybe worth 5, 000.

Danny: 00:23:58

You know, UK, British pounds, but after that, you're on your own.

Kattie: 00:24:01

You're not an only child like me, I guess.

Kattie: 00:24:03

No, well, that's true.

Danny: 00:24:04

That is true.

Danny: 00:24:04

They'd probably pay more for my sister anyway.

Danny: 00:24:07

But I know it's a good point.

Danny: 00:24:08

And part of me is curious about I'm going to use YouTube and Apple here again,

Danny: 00:24:12

because obviously they were the two companies that made the announcement.

Danny: 00:24:15

But part of me is curious how much involvement they will have

Danny: 00:24:18

in the protection side as well.

Danny: 00:24:19

I know they put the guidelines out and the requirements now, et cetera, that

Danny: 00:24:22

creators especially have to adhere to, and which would tie back to companies

Danny: 00:24:26

like Capshure, and from the creator side whatever platform they're using.

Danny: 00:24:29

But there needs to, for me anyway, I feel there needs to be some, some form of, you

Danny: 00:24:34

know, protection on the end platform side.

Danny: 00:24:37

I know, like, YouTube and Spotify has the content copyright or

Danny: 00:24:40

copyright infringement call outs, so you've got strikes, etc.

Danny: 00:24:43

on YouTube, if you're found to use.

Danny: 00:24:45

You know, audio that doesn't belong to your video, etc.

Danny: 00:24:48

But there's so many creators don't care because it's far and far, few

Danny: 00:24:52

and far between that you actually see people getting copyright strikes.

Danny: 00:24:56

Spotify does seem to do a lot better.

Danny: 00:24:57

They're very, obviously I'm at Captivate.

Danny: 00:24:59

So we do see some copyright strikes coming in and I'm

Danny: 00:25:01

speaking to people at other hosts.

Danny: 00:25:03

We know that Spotify are very on the ball when it comes to protecting copyright.

Danny: 00:25:07

But I wonder if that's something that the end platforms can

Danny: 00:25:10

also adhere to and protect.

Danny: 00:25:13

Is there a way that, you know, creators can upload samples that

Danny: 00:25:17

are specific or, as you mentioned, you know, safe words, etc.

Danny: 00:25:21

Deirdre, from a platform point of view, how do you feel on the end

Danny: 00:25:26

platform, like the destination?

Danny: 00:25:28

What do you feel their responses, their responsibilities might be

Danny: 00:25:32

to protect creators, which in turn would, you know, help protect?

Danny: 00:25:36

You know, platforms like yourself.

Deirdre: 00:25:37

Yeah, that's a tough one to answer, if I'm going to be honest,

Deirdre: 00:25:40

because I think we all know that as creators, unfortunately we do take a risk.

Deirdre: 00:25:45

Like we, it's kind of like, you know, when singers or actors become famous and then

Deirdre: 00:25:50

they resent fame, it's kind of like, well.

Deirdre: 00:25:54

You can't, you can't really comes with it, right?

Deirdre: 00:25:56

Like it's, it's kind of, it's, it's a little bit of the same thing

Deirdre: 00:25:59

where, you know, as creators, I think we have to acknowledge that there

Deirdre: 00:26:02

is going to be a risk that comes with what it is that we're doing.

Deirdre: 00:26:06

It's just part of it.

Deirdre: 00:26:08

Any job, right?

Deirdre: 00:26:08

There's always going to be a risk in some way.

Deirdre: 00:26:10

But I think what Kattie's saying and doing is, is really smart.

Deirdre: 00:26:13

It's like, how do we, as again, like, how do we think about what

Deirdre: 00:26:17

those risks could be and how do we mitigate them in the best way possible?

Deirdre: 00:26:20

So to answer your question, I'm like, I do think that the platforms

Deirdre: 00:26:24

will have a responsibility.

Deirdre: 00:26:26

But I don't know whether we can say it's all on their shoulders

Deirdre: 00:26:30

because that's also probably A, not realistic, but also probably, you

Deirdre: 00:26:36

know, not, not, not fair as well.

Deirdre: 00:26:38

Given that we've chosen to create, we've chosen to put our images out there.

Deirdre: 00:26:43

We've chosen to put our.

Deirdre: 00:26:45

Voices out there.

Deirdre: 00:26:46

It's a risk that we have to take.

Danny: 00:26:48

I think that's a fair comment.

Danny: 00:26:49

It's there's three sides, isn't there?

Danny: 00:26:51

Well, there's not three sides.

Danny: 00:26:52

There's two sides, but there's three sides in this equation.

Danny: 00:26:54

There's obviously the, the platforms like Capsho that help with the creation.

Danny: 00:26:58

There's a creator that then creates, and then there's the end platform

Danny: 00:27:01

that then distributes and publishes.

Danny: 00:27:02

I think we probably all need to have our own slice of responsibility.

Danny: 00:27:06

And mitigate as much as we can for our side.

Danny: 00:27:09

And that is a great point that you brought up, Kattie, about, you know,

Danny: 00:27:12

where does our responsibility start and, and, and where does, where does

Danny: 00:27:17

the, the viable sense of like worry, you know, the understandable sense of

Danny: 00:27:21

worry start and where can we maybe Not cut it off, but maybe be understanding,

Danny: 00:27:27

okay, I can only do so much and then I know they can only do so much as well.

Kattie: 00:27:31

I think, like, also, like, let's just compare this to climate change.

Kattie: 00:27:35

Why don't we?

Kattie: 00:27:36

Because AI regulation is going to be something that's massive over the

Kattie: 00:27:40

next couple of years that the entire world is going to be dealing with.

Kattie: 00:27:43

So, you know, us as content creators, we can do our best

Kattie: 00:27:46

to recycle, use our green bins.

Kattie: 00:27:49

And, try and protect ourselves and be green at home, let's say, or try and

Kattie: 00:27:53

protect ourselves from AI completely ruining our lives personally.

Kattie: 00:27:58

But then we also have like public companies, like, you know, Spotify, Apple

Kattie: 00:28:01

Podcasts, they are public companies, they can do, or private companies,

Kattie: 00:28:05

sorry, they can do whatever they want, they don't necessarily have to.

Kattie: 00:28:08

to regulate this.

Kattie: 00:28:10

They don't necessarily have to have these flags that tell people they

Kattie: 00:28:14

just, you know, it's best practice that they do so that things don't go

Kattie: 00:28:17

chaotic and haywire on their platforms.

Kattie: 00:28:20

But they don't have to do any of this stuff.

Kattie: 00:28:22

So then where does that leave us, right?

Kattie: 00:28:23

We are all existing within the internet and that basically is like a country

Kattie: 00:28:28

in a universe on its own that the internet isn't really regulated.

Kattie: 00:28:32

It's regulated in some capacities in Canada.

Kattie: 00:28:35

It's regulated differently around the world.

Kattie: 00:28:37

Like Danny and I are in Canada.

Kattie: 00:28:39

Deidre, I don't know if you're in Canada.

Kattie: 00:28:41

I don't think you are, but it's a wild, wild west out

Deirdre: 00:28:45

here.

Kattie: 00:28:46

Yeah.

Kattie: 00:28:47

So like things are going to get pretty chaotic and I think it is probably a

Kattie: 00:28:51

good idea for, these private companies like Apple and Spotify and Google to

Kattie: 00:28:57

come together and start talking about how they're going to deal with AI regulation

Kattie: 00:29:01

as a collective rather than separately.

Kattie: 00:29:03

And that's going to take, you know, governments to kind of crack down on that.

Kattie: 00:29:08

And, you know, nobody likes government crackdowns.

Kattie: 00:29:11

That's just always something people are always complaining about,

Kattie: 00:29:13

regardless of what country you live in.

Kattie: 00:29:15

So it's a big, big deal.

Kattie: 00:29:16

big conversation where, you know, maybe there aren't two sides, there

Kattie: 00:29:20

are like three sides, four sides, five sides to this that is really

Kattie: 00:29:24

going to have to deal with it.

Kattie: 00:29:25

So right now, all podcasters can do is just do the best to use, you know,

Kattie: 00:29:30

their green bins and try and be as eco friendly as they possibly can because

Kattie: 00:29:34

it's really coming down to how the rest of the world and these things work.

Kattie: 00:29:37

big companies that pretty much rule our worlds are gonna help regulate this

Kattie: 00:29:42

stuff before it starts to screw us over.

Kattie: 00:29:44

It's a classic case of technology.

Kattie: 00:29:47

Technology always grows faster before, way faster than

Kattie: 00:29:51

governments are regular, ready for.

Kattie: 00:29:53

And usually it's a matter of it's too late for us to create these

Kattie: 00:29:56

regulations that will protect us all.

Kattie: 00:29:58

Look at climate change.

Kattie: 00:30:00

So, This is why, this is like, why I get a bit nervous about these things,

Kattie: 00:30:04

because when it comes down to the individual protecting themselves, it's,

Kattie: 00:30:07

it doesn't seem like it's doing much at the end of the day, you know, like how a

Kattie: 00:30:11

safe word is a great thing for now, but like, what the heck happens after this?

Danny: 00:30:16

Well, I wonder if that's an opportunity for platforms like

Danny: 00:30:19

Capsho and others in the AI space to, to lead that conversation.

Danny: 00:30:22

I know from a podcast hosting point of view all the podcasts or

Danny: 00:30:25

some, the majority of the podcast hosts work with the podcast 2.

Danny: 00:30:29

0 initiative and open index and to improve that RSS feed and make podcasts

Danny: 00:30:34

more accessible and interactive and beneficial to the audience.

Danny: 00:30:37

The audience, and I feel that's a great example where the likes of

Danny: 00:30:41

Deirdre Capsho could sit down, you know, to carry his points about fears

Danny: 00:30:45

that indie creators have about tools, et cetera, and protecting their,

Danny: 00:30:49

their, their work and then their voice and their likeness, et cetera.

Danny: 00:30:53

That feels like it's a really good opportunity for the likes of

Danny: 00:30:56

Capsho to lead that conversation and lead that initiative.

Deirdre: 00:30:59

Yeah, I was about to, yeah, because I totally agree

Deirdre: 00:31:01

that, you know, at some point the government will have to step in.

Deirdre: 00:31:05

But as we all know, it's a slow moving beast.

Deirdre: 00:31:07

And and so I think with everything exactly what Kattie said, it's like the

Deirdre: 00:31:11

private sector does have to step in.

Deirdre: 00:31:13

It always leads the way because it's just more agile and, you

Deirdre: 00:31:16

know, it's not bound by politics.

Deirdre: 00:31:19

Essentially North

Kattie: 00:31:20

America, it's

Deirdre: 00:31:21

capitalism.

Deirdre: 00:31:21

It's always

Kattie: 00:31:22

leading the way,

Deirdre: 00:31:24

which is why I think we are seeing the pockets like, you know,

Deirdre: 00:31:27

you know, Apple and YouTube and Google and stuff like stepping in and going,

Deirdre: 00:31:31

okay, well, this is what we can do.

Deirdre: 00:31:32

Given what we know now, you know, we can at least try to do this in

Deirdre: 00:31:36

our, you know, little universe.

Deirdre: 00:31:38

And I think that that will start to broaden the conversation out to other.

Deirdre: 00:31:43

So I used to, I grew up in Australia, I live in the States now, and I used

Deirdre: 00:31:47

in my corporate life, I used to be in banking and I remember in Australia,

Deirdre: 00:31:50

that's kind of how it happened.

Deirdre: 00:31:51

It was like, you know, one bank would, you know, Or, you know, it'd be a

Deirdre: 00:31:55

conversation to be like, Hey, we're thinking of doing this, you know, at

Deirdre: 00:31:57

the time it was something like payments, payment rails and things like that.

Deirdre: 00:32:01

And then it would start to be like, Oh, the other banks kind of caught on and be

Deirdre: 00:32:04

like, Hey, well, why don't we just have this and, you know, create a bit of a.

Deirdre: 00:32:10

Working group around this.

Deirdre: 00:32:11

And so I, I do see that, that, that is going to happen where more and more,

Deirdre: 00:32:16

you know, again, I don't know about social media platforms because they

Deirdre: 00:32:19

don't really like to play with each other, but there will be, you know, to

Deirdre: 00:32:22

your point, Danny likes more and more private companies getting together

Deirdre: 00:32:26

and being like, okay, well, how can we start to ourselves regulate that?

Deirdre: 00:32:30

create some kind of regulation around this.

Deirdre: 00:32:32

And then it's like, then the government will step in and, and,

Deirdre: 00:32:35

and, and kind of take that forward.

Kattie: 00:32:38

Yeah.

Kattie: 00:32:39

And as indie podcasters, you have to have a lot of faith in hoping that that will

Kattie: 00:32:42

happen because there's really no incentive for private companies to work together.

Kattie: 00:32:48

So it's kind of like hoping that capitalism will have a little bit of

Kattie: 00:32:51

like socialism within it, which, you know, I don't think we've ever seen

Kattie: 00:32:55

anything like that in our lifetime.

Kattie: 00:32:57

So it's kind of like a cross your fingers and hope for the best kind of thing.

Deirdre: 00:33:02

And, and unfortunately, like, again, it's, it's a very, you know,

Deirdre: 00:33:05

there's Elon Musk, I mean, he's, The picture, you talk about capitalism,

Deirdre: 00:33:12

like there is no one more capitalist than someone like an Elon Musk.

Deirdre: 00:33:15

And you know, he can talk all and, and we can look at it differently, right?

Deirdre: 00:33:21

Like some people who love what he's doing is like, yes, he's trying to

Deirdre: 00:33:24

change the world for the better through X, Y, Z, you know you know, with these

Deirdre: 00:33:28

neural chips, he will be able to help people with, you know, neurological

Deirdre: 00:33:32

diseases and, and other things like that.

Deirdre: 00:33:34

Great.

Deirdre: 00:33:34

You know, but on the other side, it's like, Oh, you know, there is no

Deirdre: 00:33:38

faster way to, you generality than, you know, what it is that he's doing.

Deirdre: 00:33:42

Right.

Deirdre: 00:33:42

Like it is.

Deirdre: 00:33:43

So there's two sides to every story.

Deirdre: 00:33:45

So I think that's the other risk that we are taking is that because

Deirdre: 00:33:48

capitalism is at the end of it, like it's about money, money talks.

Deirdre: 00:33:52

So whoever has the most money is going to essentially be the one that.

Deirdre: 00:33:55

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:33:56

You know, like is going to do either a lot of the good thing or

Deirdre: 00:33:59

the bad thing, depending on which, you know, on which side you fall.

Deirdre: 00:34:02

So I think it's, yeah, it's, it's a really tough one.

Deirdre: 00:34:05

It is exactly like climate change, you know, again, money talks there, right?

Deirdre: 00:34:08

Like you've got businesses and like, who don't want to do anything because it's

Deirdre: 00:34:14

all about short term profit, you know?

Deirdre: 00:34:16

But then you will have other people who are like businesses and, and

Deirdre: 00:34:20

who actually see the longer term.

Deirdre: 00:34:22

So.

Deirdre: 00:34:23

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a great analogy because I think that's exactly where

Deirdre: 00:34:26

we're going to find ourselves, which is this like battle of, well, you know,

Deirdre: 00:34:31

there's a lot of short term profit that can come from AI without sight, with

Deirdre: 00:34:35

no sight of what it is going to mean longer term for generations to come.

Danny: 00:34:40

One of the things that I do want to have from both of you is, there's

Danny: 00:34:46

obviously, this is like a conversation that could last for hours and hours.

Danny: 00:34:48

There's so many depths and nuances to it.

Danny: 00:34:51

It will never end.

Danny: 00:34:52

It's been a real enjoyable conversation.

Danny: 00:34:54

I could chat for hours with you.

Danny: 00:34:56

So far, we've been obviously addressing maybe the questions that are, you know,

Danny: 00:34:59

arise from AI, whether that's from an end user point of view, a creator point

Danny: 00:35:02

of view, a platform point of view, etc.

Danny: 00:35:04

But there's also obviously, there's huge amounts of solutions and

Danny: 00:35:07

Kattie, you'd mentioned a cool little thing that you do with the paper.

Danny: 00:35:10

You know, AI the paper episodes.

Danny: 00:35:12

So I'll start with you as a creator an indie creator, indie podcaster.

Danny: 00:35:16

Kattie, what are some of the cool things that you've.

Danny: 00:35:18

done are doing with AI that, that really helps you?

Kattie: 00:35:22

I will say like a big part of what I've been trying to do is

Kattie: 00:35:25

make sure that every single episode that I produce has a transcript.

Kattie: 00:35:28

That's like a massive thing, not just for SEO, but for accessibility.

Kattie: 00:35:32

And that's something that I really care about, regardless of if

Kattie: 00:35:34

the platforms actually make it.

Kattie: 00:35:36

transcripts available.

Kattie: 00:35:37

Shout out to Apple Podcasts for finally launching that, which

Kattie: 00:35:40

I did talk to somebody who was like, this is really awesome.

Kattie: 00:35:44

But anyway, AI has made making those transcripts really, really easy.

Kattie: 00:35:48

Even if they don't necessarily get every single word right, they're normally about

Kattie: 00:35:52

like, I don't know, 99 percent correct.

Kattie: 00:35:54

And because I'm Canadian, pretty much I'm always seeing

Kattie: 00:35:57

about transcribed into a boat.

Kattie: 00:36:00

So usually I'm fixing that.

Kattie: 00:36:02

But that's been super helpful and it's able, it's, I can get a transcript done,

Kattie: 00:36:07

generated within a matter of minutes.

Kattie: 00:36:09

And then I can sit back and listen to my podcast and read the transcription

Kattie: 00:36:14

and make those corrections within the length of my podcast, which is always a

Kattie: 00:36:17

best practice anyway, because you just.

Kattie: 00:36:20

I always want to listen to the last edit that you've done, just in case,

Kattie: 00:36:24

so that's been really, really helpful for me to make sure that I can make my

Kattie: 00:36:27

podcast accessible and I would recommend anybody use those tools for that for sure.

Danny: 00:36:32

Definitely.

Danny: 00:36:33

And there's such a huge population as well that have, you know, that

Danny: 00:36:36

have, that are hard of hearing.

Danny: 00:36:37

But even, I know Ariel Nissenblatt mentioned recently on Twitter, even

Danny: 00:36:41

if she's on the subway and a noisy subway, she can't hear the podcast

Danny: 00:36:44

episode transcripts are ideal because now you can still read while you've

Danny: 00:36:47

got that little bit of audio going on.

Danny: 00:36:48

So transcripts are huge for sure.

Danny: 00:36:51

And Deirdre, I know Capsho has evolved.

Danny: 00:36:53

Since your initial, you know briefing when you first co created it.

Danny: 00:36:56

Yes.

Danny: 00:36:56

What are some of the cool things?

Danny: 00:36:57

Because obviously you work with not only podcasters and creators, but

Danny: 00:37:00

entrepreneurs and it goes beyond, you know, just simple say show notes and etc.

Danny: 00:37:05

That some AI tools do.

Danny: 00:37:07

So I'm real curious about, What's Capsho seen as really cool use of your platform

Danny: 00:37:13

and AI in general from that side?

Deirdre: 00:37:15

From it?

Deirdre: 00:37:15

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:37:15

So we are content marketing nerds.

Deirdre: 00:37:18

Like that's just kind of what we, what we do day in and day out.

Deirdre: 00:37:22

And I think it's, you know, Even the reason why Capsho came about, if I'm

Deirdre: 00:37:26

going to be honest, is because even when I had a coaching business, I,

Deirdre: 00:37:29

that was when I had my first podcast and I did not realize that you have to

Deirdre: 00:37:35

actually market your content, which is like the most counterintuitive thing.

Deirdre: 00:37:39

Right?

Deirdre: 00:37:39

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:37:40

Like you go like, but surely the publish, the act of publishing

Deirdre: 00:37:43

is the marketing itself.

Deirdre: 00:37:44

Right.

Deirdre: 00:37:44

And it's like unfortunately it's not.

Deirdre: 00:37:47

And one of my good friends, from the Biz Bros put it really well

Deirdre: 00:37:50

where it's like, An hour that you spend on creating content, you

Deirdre: 00:37:54

need to spend an hour marketing it.

Deirdre: 00:37:56

That's really the only way that you're going to be able to get

Deirdre: 00:37:58

yourself see, get any visibility.

Deirdre: 00:38:00

And so, you know, that's kind of like what we are so passionate at

Deirdre: 00:38:04

Capsho to really help solve, which is how do we actually effectively.

Deirdre: 00:38:10

Market, not only our content, because the content is like the

Deirdre: 00:38:13

gateway to our businesses, right.

Deirdre: 00:38:16

To, to us.

Deirdre: 00:38:17

And so it's so important to actually do that.

Deirdre: 00:38:19

And that's, that's what we that's what we love using AI for.

Deirdre: 00:38:23

So things that we're leaning into is so Capsho, we're actually,

Deirdre: 00:38:28

that's why I kind of asked you, Danny, when is this going live?

Deirdre: 00:38:30

Because we're literally in the next couple of weeks about to launch

Deirdre: 00:38:32

Capsho next gen, which is it's a self, a self learning platform.

Deirdre: 00:38:37

Cool.

Deirdre: 00:38:37

So the more that you edit inside of it, the more that it's going to learn, you

Deirdre: 00:38:41

know, your tone of voice the way that you like to structure, whether it's your show

Deirdre: 00:38:45

notes or your social media captions or your LinkedIn articles, things like that.

Deirdre: 00:38:49

But it actually makes the editing.

Deirdre: 00:38:52

So we want the human to interact with their content and their content

Deirdre: 00:38:56

marketing, but we also want to make it a really, really easy and seamless.

Deirdre: 00:39:00

Process.

Deirdre: 00:39:01

So it's how can we actually create editing tools in there, like summarizing,

Deirdre: 00:39:05

expanding and you know, even negative words or positive words, or, you

Deirdre: 00:39:09

know, this is how I spell about, you know, like you know, yeah, making that

Deirdre: 00:39:14

editing process really, really easy.

Deirdre: 00:39:16

It's all self learning.

Deirdre: 00:39:18

And it's going to be really intelligent around, you know, for example,

Deirdre: 00:39:23

this is the catalogue of topics or things that you've spoken about.

Deirdre: 00:39:27

I can now create more content off the back of that because I've gone like, Oh,

Deirdre: 00:39:32

actually I want to talk about this topic.

Deirdre: 00:39:34

And I can now reference these past topics I've spoken about because

Deirdre: 00:39:39

that's what AI is going to help us do.

Deirdre: 00:39:42

Right?

Deirdre: 00:39:42

Like it's actually an extension now of us.

Deirdre: 00:39:45

It's a robot on our shoulders that can actually, that has the capacity

Deirdre: 00:39:48

to remember things and recall things that we as humans can't

Deirdre: 00:39:53

and be like, Hey, if you're going to create content on this thing.

Deirdre: 00:39:56

Here are some other threads that you can pull on that you've

Deirdre: 00:39:58

already spoken about in the past.

Deirdre: 00:40:00

And this is how you can actually convert that into more content marketing assets.

Deirdre: 00:40:03

So that's where we're looking to go with, with Capsho as well.

Danny: 00:40:07

Okay, and that's Capsho 2.

Danny: 00:40:08

0, right?

Danny: 00:40:09

Next Gen is 2.

Danny: 00:40:10

0 was, yeah, it was last year's, that was last year's story, Danny.

Danny: 00:40:14

Okay, my bad.

Danny: 00:40:16

I will edit this part out.

Kattie: 00:40:18

I just wanted to add too Deirdre, you made me think of something that I

Kattie: 00:40:22

and I think one of the things that we just came across recently that's been

Kattie: 00:40:25

super helpful in terms of the marketing side of things is here on Riverside.

Kattie: 00:40:28

After you've done your recording, if you've been recording video and audio it

Kattie: 00:40:32

has this thing I think called Magic Clips, and so if you click it, it'll generate

Kattie: 00:40:36

a bunch of, like, lengthwise clip, video clips that you can use for, like, TikToks.

Kattie: 00:40:41

Instagram reels and that kind of thing.

Kattie: 00:40:43

It'll provide the little captions and you can also upload like a little logo

Kattie: 00:40:46

if you'd like to, and just have that in the corner, place it wherever you'd like.

Kattie: 00:40:50

Oh my God, that's made my life so easy.

Kattie: 00:40:53

It's so great having that capability to do that for the marketing side of things,

Kattie: 00:40:57

because realistically, like we are seeing podcast clips on Instagram reels, YouTube

Kattie: 00:41:02

shorts Tik TOK and that kind of thing.

Kattie: 00:41:04

And having the ability to do that without having to do anything else.

Kattie: 00:41:06

Any video editing at all has been really nice.

Kattie: 00:41:10

The clips that it picks sometimes are completely off and you're like,

Kattie: 00:41:14

I don't know why you picked this.

Kattie: 00:41:16

And sometimes you just have to forego that.

Kattie: 00:41:18

But so far it's been pretty helpful.

Kattie: 00:41:20

So far.

Danny: 00:41:22

I think that's where AI definitely you know, for, for the podcasters

Danny: 00:41:25

like myself, like you, Kattie the time saving feature on and so on.

Danny: 00:41:29

Obviously we still have to put the work in and make sure it's correct

Danny: 00:41:31

and relevant to what we are doing.

Danny: 00:41:33

But the time saving feature alone as a benefits is, it's just.

Danny: 00:41:36

You know, even if you just use one little piece of the AI pie.

Danny: 00:41:40

So, as I mentioned, I could speak for hours about this.

Danny: 00:41:43

But we will start wrapping up soon.

Danny: 00:41:45

However, before we do that, there are a couple of little segments that we

Danny: 00:41:49

normally have for fun on the show.

Danny: 00:41:51

Just to mix things up a little bit and end on a little bit of positivity as well.

Danny: 00:41:55

So, the first part, maybe not so much positivity, but it's, it's a, a

Danny: 00:41:59

little part of ours that we call this.

Danny: 00:42:02

Now, we're all in the podcasting space.

Danny: 00:42:04

We're all in the creator space and we know that there's all these,

Danny: 00:42:06

there's always little snippets or advice online or something you see

Danny: 00:42:09

posted or mentioned somewhere you think, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Danny: 00:42:13

So I just put a call out this week actually about, you know, what are

Danny: 00:42:16

podcasters doing a lot of online that they just feel, no, no, please don't say that's

Danny: 00:42:21

not correct or it might not be correct.

Danny: 00:42:22

So I'd love to get your input on this one.

Danny: 00:42:24

And that's to succeed in podcasting, you have to do video.

Danny: 00:42:28

If you don't do video, you're not creating properly.

Danny: 00:42:32

What do you think?

Kattie: 00:42:34

I mean, wrong.

Kattie: 00:42:38

That's totally wrong.

Kattie: 00:42:39

I mean, how many podcasts have we seen that are like award winners, massively

Kattie: 00:42:43

popular podcasts that are audio only?

Kattie: 00:42:45

Like, let's look at the top 10 of podcasts in Apple Podcasts in Spotify.

Kattie: 00:42:50

Those are all audio only, narrative style podcasts, investigative style podcasts.

Kattie: 00:42:54

Like, come on.

Kattie: 00:42:56

No.

Danny: 00:42:57

All right.

Danny: 00:42:57

So Kattie's not a fan of that.

Danny: 00:42:59

How about yourself, Deidre?

Danny: 00:43:01

Yay, nay, somewhere in-between.

Deirdre: 00:43:02

Oh, I mean, it's a very definitive, I think I just take

Deirdre: 00:43:05

issue with the fact that with how definitive the statement is, because

Deirdre: 00:43:07

I don't, I, I, that's not the case.

Deirdre: 00:43:10

But I do think that for a segment of people, if your audience is video

Deirdre: 00:43:15

first then, then that applies to you.

Deirdre: 00:43:18

Like, you know, like if they're going to be on YouTube, then that applies to you.

Deirdre: 00:43:23

But.

Deirdre: 00:43:23

Yeah.

Deirdre: 00:43:24

You know, a lot of narrative style, like the, like that just will

Deirdre: 00:43:30

probably will not work on video.

Deirdre: 00:43:31

But if you have more of a, how to more of a a very interactive you know,

Deirdre: 00:43:35

interview style podcasts and maybe video makes sense to, to be on there.

Deirdre: 00:43:39

So, yeah, I think it's just the issue issue with the definitiveness, but I

Deirdre: 00:43:43

would say that for people where you have to be audience first you know, if

Deirdre: 00:43:48

they're on there, then yeah, That will, yeah, you have to be on video then.

Danny: 00:43:52

So maybe this whole static image on YouTube isn't such a great

Danny: 00:43:56

idea for an audio only podcast.

Kattie: 00:43:59

As long as we look cute.

Danny: 00:44:01

Exactly.

Danny: 00:44:02

Yeah, take a good screenshot.

Deirdre: 00:44:04

Yeah.

Danny: 00:44:06

And one thing I do want both of you to have a say on, cause I, I know,

Danny: 00:44:10

like we've been talking today about AI and it's, as mentioned, a conversation

Danny: 00:44:13

it could go for hours and hours and offered a lot of questions, a lot of

Danny: 00:44:16

answers, which is awesome, but I do.

Danny: 00:44:18

Want to finish on something where it's just all positivity.

Danny: 00:44:21

And that is our, so we know there can be some negativity and trolls,

Danny: 00:44:26

et cetera, in the space and in, in any creator space really.

Danny: 00:44:30

So what we want to do with this part of the show with The Flattering

Danny: 00:44:33

Ram is just have our guest shine a light on someone, something,

Danny: 00:44:38

anything that they feel is doing good things in podcasting and creation.

Danny: 00:44:43

In AI tool creation, etc.

Danny: 00:44:45

So, Kattie, I'm going to ask you first again so we can get the about and

Danny: 00:44:49

about correctly transcribed for you.

Kattie: 00:44:52

It's actually about.

Kattie: 00:44:53

About.

Danny: 00:44:54

I've not been in Canada long enough to pronounce that properly.

Danny: 00:44:57

So Kattie.

Danny: 00:44:58

Who's your flatterer?

Danny: 00:44:59

What's your flattering ram?

Kattie: 00:45:01

I wanted to shout out a newsletter.

Kattie: 00:45:03

I'm clearly a newsletter fan.

Kattie: 00:45:05

It is called Sounds like impact.

Kattie: 00:45:07

It's a really great newsletter.

Kattie: 00:45:08

That is combining audio and action.

Kattie: 00:45:11

So every issue They highlight a certain theme that needs a call to

Kattie: 00:45:16

action in the world whether that be climate change Feminism all sorts of

Kattie: 00:45:19

things like that and it highlights a bunch of podcasts that are within that

Kattie: 00:45:23

space where people can learn more.

Kattie: 00:45:25

And it's a really great newsletter.

Kattie: 00:45:27

I think everybody should check it

Danny: 00:45:28

out.

Danny: 00:45:29

Awesome.

Danny: 00:45:29

It sounds awesome.

Danny: 00:45:30

And Deidre, how about yourself?

Danny: 00:45:32

What is your, who's your flattering ram?

Deirdre: 00:45:34

Yes.

Deirdre: 00:45:34

So I, I'm sure that your, a lot of your listeners probably know

Deirdre: 00:45:38

this person, but Alex Sanfilippo, who is the co founder of Podmatch.

Deirdre: 00:45:42

I call him Mr.

Deirdre: 00:45:43

Podcast because he's like so passionate about helping indie podcasters.

Deirdre: 00:45:49

Thrive, survive and thrive in, because it's not an easy thing that.

Deirdre: 00:45:53

We do here.

Deirdre: 00:45:54

You know, like it sounds easy getting into it, but then once you realize just

Deirdre: 00:45:58

how much it gets put into, not only the actual production workflow, but then, as

Deirdre: 00:46:06

I said, like the marketing of it, it's.

Deirdre: 00:46:09

It's a lot.

Deirdre: 00:46:09

And so he's created a really great resource called PodScore where podcasters

Deirdre: 00:46:15

can actually figure out where they're kind of where, where their superpower

Deirdre: 00:46:18

is lean into that, but then also work out, you know, if they wanted to work

Deirdre: 00:46:23

on some, like, I don't really want to call them gaps, but you know, some,

Deirdre: 00:46:28

some things that they could make better, be even better in then there's

Deirdre: 00:46:31

there's some resources that he actually shares, I can help them with that.

Deirdre: 00:46:34

So incredibly.

Deirdre: 00:46:36

cool resource.

Deirdre: 00:46:36

Alex is doing really great things in this space.

Deirdre: 00:46:38

So yeah, he's, I'm going to shout him out.

Danny: 00:46:41

That's a good shout.

Danny: 00:46:42

I know Alex, we met him last year in Denver at the Podcast Movement

Danny: 00:46:45

and I used PodMatch for the longest time when I had a guest podcast.

Danny: 00:46:50

So yeah, great shows and we'll be sure to leave them either in the podcast.

Danny: 00:46:53

Podcast show notes, if you're on audio or in the YouTube description, if

Danny: 00:46:57

you're modern and watching on YouTube.

Danny: 00:46:59

Since we asked about video and this should be stuff in podcast, and this is a proper

Danny: 00:47:01

video, it's not just a static image.

Danny: 00:47:04

So thank you for both of these flattering rams.

Danny: 00:47:06

We'll be sure to leave the links in all the right places.

Danny: 00:47:09

Before we do wrap up, finally for anybody that wants to connect

Danny: 00:47:12

with yourself, do you, do you find out more about Capsho, et cetera?

Danny: 00:47:15

Where's the best place for that?

Deirdre: 00:47:17

Yes.

Deirdre: 00:47:17

So as I said, we're about to launch if this might even go

Deirdre: 00:47:21

live while we're in launch mode.

Deirdre: 00:47:23

So I'll direct people to club.

Deirdre: 00:47:25

Capsho.

Deirdre: 00:47:27

com.

Deirdre: 00:47:27

So that's C L U B.

Deirdre: 00:47:29

Capsho.

Deirdre: 00:47:30

com.

Deirdre: 00:47:30

We have, we are launching with a.

Deirdre: 00:47:36

It's literally going to be like 20 percent of the price that it's going to become.

Deirdre: 00:47:40

So yeah, for anyone who wants to get in on the ground floor of what

Deirdre: 00:47:43

we're, some really cool things that we're doing now with Capsho Next

Deirdre: 00:47:47

Gen, then yeah, head over to club.

Deirdre: 00:47:48

Capsho.

Deirdre: 00:47:48

com.

Danny: 00:47:50

Awesome.

Danny: 00:47:50

I will make sure to include that too.

Danny: 00:47:52

And Kattie, how about yourself?

Danny: 00:47:54

I'm you'd mentioned Pod The North, where can people find you?

Danny: 00:47:56

connect with you, et cetera, and learn more about your awesome Canadian ness.

Kattie: 00:48:01

So you can find me, basically you just go to podthenorth.

Kattie: 00:48:04

com.

Kattie: 00:48:05

And once you're there, you'll be able to find a little about page

Kattie: 00:48:08

where you can find my website.

Kattie: 00:48:09

But it's also, Also, if you are subscribed to the newsletter, if you reply right

Kattie: 00:48:13

to it, it'll go right to my inbox.

Kattie: 00:48:15

So that just goes right to me.

Kattie: 00:48:17

So you can get in touch with me that way.

Kattie: 00:48:18

And then I'll, finally, I'll just shout out my new podcast,

Kattie: 00:48:21

Canardian is coming out next week.

Kattie: 00:48:23

And if you like it, it's a show all about gossiping about Canadian hometowns.

Kattie: 00:48:27

And my information will be in the show notes there too, if

Kattie: 00:48:30

you find the podcast on Spotify.

Danny: 00:48:32

Perfect.

Danny: 00:48:33

Awesome.

Danny: 00:48:33

And we will definitely include all that too.

Danny: 00:48:35

So again, thank you for appearing today and talking and sharing your

Danny: 00:48:39

wisdom about AI and podcasting.

Danny: 00:48:40

Really appreciate it.

Kattie: 00:48:42

Thank you, Danny.

Kattie: 00:48:42

Thank you.

Danny: 00:48:43

So this has been another episode of In and Around Podcasting.

Danny: 00:48:46

And I think you'll agree it's been an awesome, awesome discussion.

Danny: 00:48:49

If you want to get more episodes and catch up with new episodes as

Danny: 00:48:52

they come out, be sure to follow for free at inandaroundpodcasting.

Danny: 00:48:55

com forward slash listen.

Danny: 00:48:57

That's for the audio.

Danny: 00:48:58

If you want the YouTube, you can just go over to YouTube's.

Danny: 00:49:01

YouTube's.

Danny: 00:49:01

The YouTube's.

Danny: 00:49:02

You can go there too.

Danny: 00:49:03

And just look for In and Around Podcasting.

Danny: 00:49:05

We're always there.

Danny: 00:49:06

We have little snippets and episodes like this.

Danny: 00:49:09

Until the next time, keep podcasting and keep asking questions.